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Published by Jeff
on Wednesday, August 29, 2007 at 8:55 AM. 
Previously, I explored the reliability of Scripture in regard as Truth. I came at it from a secular, legal angle. Would there be enough evidence in court for a jury to deem it true? My answer was yes and outlined why. It can be read or reviewed with my post "Jesus the Key."
Previously, I explored the reliability of Scripture in regard as Truth. I came at it from a secular, legal angle. Would there be enough evidence in court for a jury to deem it true? My answer was yes and outlined why. It can be read or reviewed with my post "Jesus the Key."I came across a story today that gives the other side of how convincing the the New Testament, particularly the Gospel Accounts, ring as true. This account illustrates how the Gospels stand by themselves. I found it interesting:
___________________________________________________________________
Dr. E. V. Rieu was a classical scholar and translator for many years. He rendered Homer into very modern English for the Penguin Classics. Rieu was 60 years old and a lifelong agnostic when the same firm invited him to translate the Gospels. His son remarked: "It will be interesting to see what Father makes of the four Gospels. It will be even more interesting to see what the four Gospels make of Father."
The answer was soon forthcoming. A year later, Rieu, convinced and converted, joined the Church of England. In an interview with J. B. Phillips, Rieu confessed that he had undertaken the task of translation because of an "intense desire to satisfy himself as to the authenticity and spiritual content of the Gospels."
He was determined to approach the documents as if they were newly discovered Greek manuscripts. "Did you not get the feeling," asked Canon Phillips, "that the whole material was extraordinarily alive?" The classical scholar agreed. "I got the deepest feeling," he replied. "My work changed me. I came to the conclusion that these words bear the seal of the Son of Man and God." (from a daily devotion, originally from J. B. Phillips, The Ring of Truth. quoted by R. Kent Hughes in 1001Great Stories and Quotes.)
Labels: apologetics, debate, impressions
4 Comments
Published by Jeff
on Tuesday, August 21, 2007 at 9:30 AM.
In my recent post, "Written on their Hearts" which can be found below, I discussed how evidence of God can be found in the most unlikely of places. In making that point, I have undoubtedly invited criticism of myself even to the point where I may not believe the Bible is God's Word. This indictment comes from Danny Kaye. For those of you who read this blog, Danny Kaye also has other issues with my so-called Christianity. In "A Question of Blogging," he came down on me for keeping my blog thoughts away from my wife. After that post, I thought that he was a Christian brother just concerned about a mistake I may be making in my walk. I welcomed his comments and thoughts to help me stay accountable.
After this post, however, I am coming to the realization that there may be more than this from Danny Kaye. It almost seems that he can't wait to see the splinter in my eye in order to call me on it. I still will give him the benefit of the doubt, but I do see the possibility that he may have some kind of "moral police" mentality. At any rate, I STILL welcome his comments. They still will help me think about my life and keep me accountable. As a matter of fact, I actually enjoy the engagement and would not reject off hand the idea of partnering with him on a Christian debate blog if this one hasn't morphed into that already.
I never dreamed that Danny Kaye or anyone would have a problem with my post. Instead of concentrating on my point, which he DID recognize, it seemed that he was just waiting to pounce by taking liberties with his assumptions.
Now for his charges and my response:
"First, let me say that I love concerts. I love music. I love crowds. I love a cold beer (especially after an ultimate frisbee game). I love entertainment in a big way! But...I have to ask this question before I start: Do you believe the Bible? (No, seriously.) . . . I mean, do you believe that the Bible is the Word of God and that it is the Standard and Ruler on which we should base our lives? The answer to that question will determine whether or not my comments will be heard without a "filter", or if my comment will fall flat."
Ironically, the post before this controversial one concluded with me pointing to the Bible as Truth and the Word of God. This means that either I am being charged with being a hypocrite, or not understanding what the concept of the Word of God means. I admit to being a hypocrite. I admitted that on this blog before. We ALL are. However, I don't believe I was hypoctical with my views of the concert. I do believe that the Bible is "the Standard and Ruler" on which I should base my life. However, the last sentence in Danny Kaye's quote is illigitimate. He sets up an exlcusive conditon which there is no room for any other possibility. Frankly, I don't see how he can claim that authority. Even if he does, I don't recognize it because I see a vast number of possibilities.
"But the part I have difficulty with is the part about not being offended by the sinfulness you saw there. I have to say that this one definately does NOT stack up well against the Scriptures.I am reminded of the Tower of Babel. Here was a bunch of folks who were sinning up a storm (the act of attempting to reach heaven without the help of God). The Lord found their activities offensive, even though they were unified."
I don't disagree with this. The people about the Tower of Babel were bypassing God to try to reach heaven. God was offended and TOOK ACTION AGAINST THEM. This is important. It was GOD that was offended and took action. This judgement was and is reserved for God. Who am I? What power do I have to affect those concert goers. The only instruction I know from Scripture is to love them; not condemn them.
"I am reminded of a passage in 2 Cor. 6:14-16 which says, "Do not be yoked together with unbelievers. For what do righteousness and wickedness have in common? Or what fellowship can light have with darkness? What harmony is there between Christ and Belial? What does a believer have in common with an unbeliever? What agreement is there between the temple of God and idols?"
From reading your post I would guess that you fellowshipped, harmonized and agreed pretty well with the crowd."
I have no problem with the 2 Cor. verses. Can you guess which part of his quote that I DID have a problem with? When I originally read his feedback, I was forced to go back and re-read my post. Here is what I found:
"In my church, the worship is led by a band that plays upbeat, even rock music. Looking around the auditorium, many people (mostly teenagers) were swaying, raising their hands, worshipping. I am a little more demure about my worship . . ."
The clue here that was easily missed was that even though it is common place at my church to do these kind of activities, I do not "get into" it in that way. It isn't my personality. However, somehow I AM that kind of person at a rock concert. It isn't true and there is nothing I wrote that would reasonably assume that I am.
"In unison, they sang, jumped, pumped their arms toward the objects of their affection. It was more than the throng admiring the music or the musicianship. The multitude was enraptured and was caught in unified worship.
I was in awe. Not that I have never witnessed this phenomenon before, but I never truly SAW it before. It confirms what my Christian spirit and the Scriptures have always taught me. God writes instructions on the hearts of mankind. He programs us."
Here, from the same post that Danny Kaye ASSUMES that I am WITH THE CROWD, I am in a role of witnessing it. I didn't write WE sang, jumped, etc., I wrote THEY. I truthfully do not know why he assumed the worse of me. He just did.
"I dunno, mate. I compare your admiration of their unity to seeing a couple involved in adultery and thinking, WOW!!! Look how much they love one another!"
I didn't admire the crowd; I admired God, His Word, the confirmation that this action was programmed by God, but perverted by this fallen world. There is a bigger picture there than drunken concert goers. There is something there that screams, "No matter how perverted or depraved the activity, the influence of God is still there. His fingerprints are everywhere. It is a shame that it gets perverted, but it has to be there for it to BE perverted. That is what I was in awe of.
"Look, I can avoid joining in on the profanity. I can avoid joining in on the drunkeness. And perhaps you are more pure and not so easily dragged into sin than I am, but if a naked woman (or many naked women) was flaunted in front of me, I imagine it would take me all of about .01 seconds to start lusting after what I saw."
That's a shame. I am not trying to be disrespectful, but Danny Kaye and I are different in this area. I am just not turned on by drunken women exposing their breasts in this fashion. I don't even think there was a lot of lusting in the crowd. There was more laughter than lip licking. And before DK jumps to more evil-seeking conclusions about me, I wasn't laughing either. Truthfully, I was just indifferent at this point of the concert (the very end).
"I am sure you are familiar with Galatians 5:19ff. But in case you are not, I'll post it:"The acts of the sinful nature are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God." Dude! You experienced at least 5 or 6 of the things in this list alone at that concert!"
Again, I have no problem with the Word, just a problem with his assumptions. What did I experience (as opposed to witness)? Sexual immorality? Nope, I didn't even have my hands in my pockets. Impurity? Nope, showered and shaved before I left and I didn't then or do now use profanity. Debauchery? Nope, may have witnessed it, but I was pretty much a wall flower. Idolotry? Double no, I was worshipping God at the time. Witchraft? Please. Hatred? No. Discord? No, but I would have had I stood up an condemned the crowd. Jealousy? Hardly. Fits of Rage? No, but Danny Kaye may have had one had he been there (tongue in cheek). Selfish Ambition? Not hardly. Dissensions? See "Discord" above. Factions and Envy? No and no. Drunkeness? Nope, I had one overpriced Diet Pepsi. I have never been drunk in my life. Orgies? Ah . . . . no. I can't find one thing that I EXPERIENCED on that list.
"I guess I am a terrible Christian. Because I would have had to high-tail it outta there. I would not have been able to stay and see the wonders of God in that crowd. I gotta hand it to you, Jeff. You must be a VERY strong Christian."
Thank you, but don't worry. We are all terrible Christians. That is why we have a God of Grace and Mercy.
Let me give a little more background. I don't really like Motley Crue. As a matter of fact, if not for the song, "Home Sweet Home", I think I would dislike ALL of their music. However, a friend won two tickets to this concert, kind of likes '80's bands, and asked me to go with him so he wouldn't have to go alone. I agreed.
I didn't know what I was getting into, but I praised God that I got that little message from Him from going. That, in of itself, confirmed to me that God was not unhappy that I was there. Maybe some people like Danny Kaye can't handle that situation. I agree with his statement: "I would not have been able to stay and see the wonders of God in that crowd." He wouldn't and God would probably not have bothered to try to get him to see it. That doesn't make Danny Kaye wrong or inferior, just different. I think it is a gift to be able to see the Biblical God in all places. I thank God for that gift.
I am not going to judge people. That is up to God. If someone comes up to me and askes me what my opinion of an activity is, I would tell them. However, I won't judge them. Some people have to go through a lot of things to find God and the life that He wants them to live. I do not have the authority to prescribe that life. There is a Christian principle taught in AA that states that no one should deprive another of their suffering. There is a reason for that principle.
As I stated in the original post, "These people, the band and crowd alike, are on their paths - living out what they think is written on their hearts." Some day they will find God (if they hadn't already). Hopefully, it will be on this side of their last breaths.
In my recent post, "Written on their Hearts" which can be found below, I discussed how evidence of God can be found in the most unlikely of places. In making that point, I have undoubtedly invited criticism of myself even to the point where I may not believe the Bible is God's Word. This indictment comes from Danny Kaye. For those of you who read this blog, Danny Kaye also has other issues with my so-called Christianity. In "A Question of Blogging," he came down on me for keeping my blog thoughts away from my wife. After that post, I thought that he was a Christian brother just concerned about a mistake I may be making in my walk. I welcomed his comments and thoughts to help me stay accountable.After this post, however, I am coming to the realization that there may be more than this from Danny Kaye. It almost seems that he can't wait to see the splinter in my eye in order to call me on it. I still will give him the benefit of the doubt, but I do see the possibility that he may have some kind of "moral police" mentality. At any rate, I STILL welcome his comments. They still will help me think about my life and keep me accountable. As a matter of fact, I actually enjoy the engagement and would not reject off hand the idea of partnering with him on a Christian debate blog if this one hasn't morphed into that already.
I never dreamed that Danny Kaye or anyone would have a problem with my post. Instead of concentrating on my point, which he DID recognize, it seemed that he was just waiting to pounce by taking liberties with his assumptions.
Now for his charges and my response:
"First, let me say that I love concerts. I love music. I love crowds. I love a cold beer (especially after an ultimate frisbee game). I love entertainment in a big way! But...I have to ask this question before I start: Do you believe the Bible? (No, seriously.) . . . I mean, do you believe that the Bible is the Word of God and that it is the Standard and Ruler on which we should base our lives? The answer to that question will determine whether or not my comments will be heard without a "filter", or if my comment will fall flat."
Ironically, the post before this controversial one concluded with me pointing to the Bible as Truth and the Word of God. This means that either I am being charged with being a hypocrite, or not understanding what the concept of the Word of God means. I admit to being a hypocrite. I admitted that on this blog before. We ALL are. However, I don't believe I was hypoctical with my views of the concert. I do believe that the Bible is "the Standard and Ruler" on which I should base my life. However, the last sentence in Danny Kaye's quote is illigitimate. He sets up an exlcusive conditon which there is no room for any other possibility. Frankly, I don't see how he can claim that authority. Even if he does, I don't recognize it because I see a vast number of possibilities.
"But the part I have difficulty with is the part about not being offended by the sinfulness you saw there. I have to say that this one definately does NOT stack up well against the Scriptures.I am reminded of the Tower of Babel. Here was a bunch of folks who were sinning up a storm (the act of attempting to reach heaven without the help of God). The Lord found their activities offensive, even though they were unified."
I don't disagree with this. The people about the Tower of Babel were bypassing God to try to reach heaven. God was offended and TOOK ACTION AGAINST THEM. This is important. It was GOD that was offended and took action. This judgement was and is reserved for God. Who am I? What power do I have to affect those concert goers. The only instruction I know from Scripture is to love them; not condemn them.
"I am reminded of a passage in 2 Cor. 6:14-16 which says, "Do not be yoked together with unbelievers. For what do righteousness and wickedness have in common? Or what fellowship can light have with darkness? What harmony is there between Christ and Belial? What does a believer have in common with an unbeliever? What agreement is there between the temple of God and idols?"
From reading your post I would guess that you fellowshipped, harmonized and agreed pretty well with the crowd."
I have no problem with the 2 Cor. verses. Can you guess which part of his quote that I DID have a problem with? When I originally read his feedback, I was forced to go back and re-read my post. Here is what I found:
"In my church, the worship is led by a band that plays upbeat, even rock music. Looking around the auditorium, many people (mostly teenagers) were swaying, raising their hands, worshipping. I am a little more demure about my worship . . ."
The clue here that was easily missed was that even though it is common place at my church to do these kind of activities, I do not "get into" it in that way. It isn't my personality. However, somehow I AM that kind of person at a rock concert. It isn't true and there is nothing I wrote that would reasonably assume that I am.
"In unison, they sang, jumped, pumped their arms toward the objects of their affection. It was more than the throng admiring the music or the musicianship. The multitude was enraptured and was caught in unified worship.
I was in awe. Not that I have never witnessed this phenomenon before, but I never truly SAW it before. It confirms what my Christian spirit and the Scriptures have always taught me. God writes instructions on the hearts of mankind. He programs us."
Here, from the same post that Danny Kaye ASSUMES that I am WITH THE CROWD, I am in a role of witnessing it. I didn't write WE sang, jumped, etc., I wrote THEY. I truthfully do not know why he assumed the worse of me. He just did.
"I dunno, mate. I compare your admiration of their unity to seeing a couple involved in adultery and thinking, WOW!!! Look how much they love one another!"
I didn't admire the crowd; I admired God, His Word, the confirmation that this action was programmed by God, but perverted by this fallen world. There is a bigger picture there than drunken concert goers. There is something there that screams, "No matter how perverted or depraved the activity, the influence of God is still there. His fingerprints are everywhere. It is a shame that it gets perverted, but it has to be there for it to BE perverted. That is what I was in awe of.
"Look, I can avoid joining in on the profanity. I can avoid joining in on the drunkeness. And perhaps you are more pure and not so easily dragged into sin than I am, but if a naked woman (or many naked women) was flaunted in front of me, I imagine it would take me all of about .01 seconds to start lusting after what I saw."
That's a shame. I am not trying to be disrespectful, but Danny Kaye and I are different in this area. I am just not turned on by drunken women exposing their breasts in this fashion. I don't even think there was a lot of lusting in the crowd. There was more laughter than lip licking. And before DK jumps to more evil-seeking conclusions about me, I wasn't laughing either. Truthfully, I was just indifferent at this point of the concert (the very end).
"I am sure you are familiar with Galatians 5:19ff. But in case you are not, I'll post it:"The acts of the sinful nature are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God." Dude! You experienced at least 5 or 6 of the things in this list alone at that concert!"
Again, I have no problem with the Word, just a problem with his assumptions. What did I experience (as opposed to witness)? Sexual immorality? Nope, I didn't even have my hands in my pockets. Impurity? Nope, showered and shaved before I left and I didn't then or do now use profanity. Debauchery? Nope, may have witnessed it, but I was pretty much a wall flower. Idolotry? Double no, I was worshipping God at the time. Witchraft? Please. Hatred? No. Discord? No, but I would have had I stood up an condemned the crowd. Jealousy? Hardly. Fits of Rage? No, but Danny Kaye may have had one had he been there (tongue in cheek). Selfish Ambition? Not hardly. Dissensions? See "Discord" above. Factions and Envy? No and no. Drunkeness? Nope, I had one overpriced Diet Pepsi. I have never been drunk in my life. Orgies? Ah . . . . no. I can't find one thing that I EXPERIENCED on that list.
"I guess I am a terrible Christian. Because I would have had to high-tail it outta there. I would not have been able to stay and see the wonders of God in that crowd. I gotta hand it to you, Jeff. You must be a VERY strong Christian."
Thank you, but don't worry. We are all terrible Christians. That is why we have a God of Grace and Mercy.
Let me give a little more background. I don't really like Motley Crue. As a matter of fact, if not for the song, "Home Sweet Home", I think I would dislike ALL of their music. However, a friend won two tickets to this concert, kind of likes '80's bands, and asked me to go with him so he wouldn't have to go alone. I agreed.
I didn't know what I was getting into, but I praised God that I got that little message from Him from going. That, in of itself, confirmed to me that God was not unhappy that I was there. Maybe some people like Danny Kaye can't handle that situation. I agree with his statement: "I would not have been able to stay and see the wonders of God in that crowd." He wouldn't and God would probably not have bothered to try to get him to see it. That doesn't make Danny Kaye wrong or inferior, just different. I think it is a gift to be able to see the Biblical God in all places. I thank God for that gift.
I am not going to judge people. That is up to God. If someone comes up to me and askes me what my opinion of an activity is, I would tell them. However, I won't judge them. Some people have to go through a lot of things to find God and the life that He wants them to live. I do not have the authority to prescribe that life. There is a Christian principle taught in AA that states that no one should deprive another of their suffering. There is a reason for that principle.
As I stated in the original post, "These people, the band and crowd alike, are on their paths - living out what they think is written on their hearts." Some day they will find God (if they hadn't already). Hopefully, it will be on this side of their last breaths.
Labels: blog, christian living, debate, finding God, grace
6 Comments
Published by Jeff
on Tuesday, August 14, 2007 at 9:35 AM.
I am reminded about the time I attended a Motley Crue concert a couple of years ago. It was an interesting night, actually. There were plenty of things to look at that one usually doesn't see as he trifles down life's avenues. For one thing, I saw a scantily-clad young woman leading a little person (although he was referred to as a midget) by a leash. There were nearly naked trapese performers, fire, explosions and plenty of f-bombs to go around. The music was loud and true to the original sound of the eighties glam bands. Oh yeah, there was also a miniversion of "Girls Gone Wild" thanks to drummer Tommy Lee, a hand-held camcorder, and two giant screens - oh and of course local women and two hours worth of consumed beer.
As I was sitting in church Sunday, I couldn't help but notice all the people that were REALLY getting into the worship part of the service. In my church, the worship is led by a band that plays upbeat, even rock music. Looking around the auditorium, many people (mostly teenagers) were swaying, raising their hands, worshipping. I am a little more demure about my worship - especially in the past few months because of situations that are trying to rob me of my joy (but ultimately failing). But I digress . . .
I am reminded about the time I attended a Motley Crue concert a couple of years ago. It was an interesting night, actually. There were plenty of things to look at that one usually doesn't see as he trifles down life's avenues. For one thing, I saw a scantily-clad young woman leading a little person (although he was referred to as a midget) by a leash. There were nearly naked trapese performers, fire, explosions and plenty of f-bombs to go around. The music was loud and true to the original sound of the eighties glam bands. Oh yeah, there was also a miniversion of "Girls Gone Wild" thanks to drummer Tommy Lee, a hand-held camcorder, and two giant screens - oh and of course local women and two hours worth of consumed beer.The thing I noticed the most, however, was not the nudity, profanity, or the rock and roll. It was the crowd - it's behavior. Notice that I described the crowd as a singular entity rather that a plurality of people. That is because they were of one mind, one spirit.
In unison, they sang, jumped, pumped their arms toward the objects of their affection. It was more than the throng admiring the music or the musicianship. The multitude was enraptured and was caught in unified worship.
I was in awe. Not that I have never witnessed this phenomenon before, but I never truly SAW it before. It confirms what my Christian spirit and the Scriptures have always taught me. God writes instructions on the hearts of mankind. He programs us.
God gave us a necessity for worship. When we are lost in this world, the instructions are often perverted. Nevertheless, they always manage to surface. The crowd worshipped Motley Crue because they had a NEED to worship . . . something. The band offered a loud, high energy, outlet. It made perfect sense.
Many Christians would have been offended if they saw what I saw on that night. I wasn't. These people, the band and crowd alike, are on their paths - living out what they think is written on their hearts. No, I wasn't offended. I praised God for letting me in on a little more truth.
Labels: bojr, finding God
1 Comments
Published by Jeff
on Wednesday, August 08, 2007 at 10:20 AM.
Previously, I discussed how Jesus was the key to discovering God. I will continue from there. I am not going to spend time re-hashing WHY Jesus is key. If you want to explore that more, then visit my original post here. I will now investigate Jesus being the key at another level. He is central in discovering what God has to say to mankind OUTSIDE of the words of Christ, Himself.
The Gospel writers have Jesus referring to Noah, Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob - all of which are historical figures found in the book of Genesis. The Gospel of Luke even traces Jesus' lineage all the way back to Adam.
Showing previously the reliability of the New Testament, I will now explore the Old Testament from the credible standpoint OF the New Testament. First of all, there are only five Old Testament books not mentioned in the New Testament: Ezra, Ecclesiastes, Ester, Nehemiah, and Song of Solomon. The rest of the 39 books are accounted for there.
The Gospel writers have Jesus referring to Noah, Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob - all of which are historical figures found in the book of Genesis. The Gospel of Luke even traces Jesus' lineage all the way back to Adam.Jesus talks about Moses as the lawgiver on a number of occasions. Moreover, Matthew, Mark, and Luke all described the transfiguratation (represented at the left from a painting by Carl Bloch) where Moses and Elijah came to commune with Jesus on a mountain. Jesus often mentions Moses and the prophets in his teachings.
We can conclude here that if Jesus was/is the Son of God, He would know whether or not these Old Testament stories were false. Instead of discrediting them, He affirms the Old Testament as Truth. This is ironic when one considers the beliefs of the Jews. The Jews do not recognize Jesus as Messiah, yet Jesus provided the most credible evidence to date that the Jewish scriptures are legitimate.
I don't spend too much time here hammering out evidence after evidence. If there is any reason to disagree with me, I welcome it in the "comments" section. Other than that, I will explore how the Old and New Testaments tie together as an overall love letter from God to man; the ultimate Good News to the human race.
Labels: apologetics, comparing religions, finding God, Jesus, origins
3 Comments
Published by Jeff
on Friday, August 03, 2007 at 9:06 AM.
Have you ever listened to a song that you have heard a thousand times before, but it hits you suddenly like you have never heard it before? This has happened to me before and also today. I guess it is a matter of listening instead of hearing.
This is where some bloggers tend to list a whole song of lyrics for all to peruse. I am going to resist that urge and talk about a few things in the song instead - and yes, will probably include snippets of the lyrics. For some reason the whole song transcript thing just gets on my nerves.
The song in question is "I Need You to Love Me" by Barlow Girl. When I heard it today on the radio, I actually listened to every word. The tune and the sweetness of the harmony of the group's voices made it all the more bittersweet for me. It reminded me of my failures, but not in despair but in hope. It starts out this way:
Why, why are you still here with me
didn't you see what i've done?
In my shame i want to run and hide myself
But it's here i see the truth; I don't deserve you
Facing God in a situation like that is heart wrenching - if you believe that He is there. There is no place to hide. Yet, if you feel the mercy and the Grace, you know the only place you want to run is to Him.
After taking you down the road of self-examination, we are led in the chorus to facing the moment, our needs, and our lifeline:
But I need you to love me,
And I won't keep my heart from you this time
And I'll stop this pretending
That I can somehow deserve what I already have
I need you to love me
The last verse is what got me. It literally changed my state of being while driving to work:
I just never saw how you could cherish me
'Cause you're a god who has all things
And still you want me
I understand that if you don't have this kind of vision of God, that this song really has no meaning for you. I don't want to sound superior, but I really pity those who do not know God or even recognize His existance. Without Him, all you have are others who have their own agendas and all of them do not include you. People, every single one, will ultimately let you down. All you have left is yourself and if you are as honest as I am at this moment, you know how wretched you really are.
Where is the hope? The hope lies with the One that includes you in every agenda. The One who does not grade you at every turn and will not turn from you when you betray Him. Because if you aren't in a state of betrayal to the God who sacrificed for you right now, you will be in the future. You can't help yourself. And when you are, He will still be there taking your best shots. He can't help Himself, either. It is His nature.
I am sure I will be there again as the first verse describes, wondering why God is still there after knowing what I have done. It is knowing that He will be is what gets me through today.
This is where some bloggers tend to list a whole song of lyrics for all to peruse. I am going to resist that urge and talk about a few things in the song instead - and yes, will probably include snippets of the lyrics. For some reason the whole song transcript thing just gets on my nerves.
The song in question is "I Need You to Love Me" by Barlow Girl. When I heard it today on the radio, I actually listened to every word. The tune and the sweetness of the harmony of the group's voices made it all the more bittersweet for me. It reminded me of my failures, but not in despair but in hope. It starts out this way:
Why, why are you still here with me
didn't you see what i've done?
In my shame i want to run and hide myself
But it's here i see the truth; I don't deserve you
Facing God in a situation like that is heart wrenching - if you believe that He is there. There is no place to hide. Yet, if you feel the mercy and the Grace, you know the only place you want to run is to Him.
After taking you down the road of self-examination, we are led in the chorus to facing the moment, our needs, and our lifeline:
But I need you to love me,
And I won't keep my heart from you this time
And I'll stop this pretending
That I can somehow deserve what I already have
I need you to love me
The last verse is what got me. It literally changed my state of being while driving to work:
I just never saw how you could cherish me
'Cause you're a god who has all things
And still you want me
I understand that if you don't have this kind of vision of God, that this song really has no meaning for you. I don't want to sound superior, but I really pity those who do not know God or even recognize His existance. Without Him, all you have are others who have their own agendas and all of them do not include you. People, every single one, will ultimately let you down. All you have left is yourself and if you are as honest as I am at this moment, you know how wretched you really are.
Where is the hope? The hope lies with the One that includes you in every agenda. The One who does not grade you at every turn and will not turn from you when you betray Him. Because if you aren't in a state of betrayal to the God who sacrificed for you right now, you will be in the future. You can't help yourself. And when you are, He will still be there taking your best shots. He can't help Himself, either. It is His nature.
I am sure I will be there again as the first verse describes, wondering why God is still there after knowing what I have done. It is knowing that He will be is what gets me through today.
Labels: bojr, Christianity, grace, self examination
12 Comments
Published by Jeff
on Wednesday, August 01, 2007 at 3:12 PM.
Danny Kaye from Nothing Important To .US and I are having a discussion concerning the "Separate Worlds" theory I incorporate in my blogging practice. It comes from "The Interview" post I recently made.
Danny Kaye from Nothing Important To .US and I are having a discussion concerning the "Separate Worlds" theory I incorporate in my blogging practice. It comes from "The Interview" post I recently made. Interview question that started this discussion was:
1. Is your wife aware of the degree to which you blog about your relationship? If so, her reaction?
My answer was, "My wife, to my knowledge, is not even aware that I have a blog, much less a blog that reveals aspects of our relationship. I am a firm believer of the “separate worlds” theory as perceived by George on Seinfeld. We all need a place where we can be real, a place that is a sanctuary from those closest to us. If my wife started reading my blog and became familiar with those who regularly read and comment on it, 'Independent Jeff' would cease to exist.
No one in my real life knows about or has read my blog, so it is not just about hiding things from my wife. However, I do try to protect the most sensitive of details and people that I mention in my blog by keeping them somewhat anonymous"
Danny Kaye questioned this answer and wondered if I thought it would stack up against Scripture.
This is how I clarified this question, "I don't really think there is a conflict - not by the way I am thinking about the concept, anyway. I guess I can see the conflict from an outsiders point of view.
We all have thoughts and opinions and ways to work out problems in our lives through words and processses. It is not imperative for those that are involved in those conflicts and things to be aware of every thought in my head. Some couldn't handle it. Some would be hurt by it. For some things I may choose to write about, people in my life may spread it like gossip or try to use it against me or someone else to hurt them.
This way, I and the people in my life do not have to deal with it. I can still use my blog to process those things and get objective feedback. Where is the conflict?"
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I included this extensive background to this question in order that some detail doesn't get lost in the string. Danny Kaye gave a very long and well thought out response. I will include his remarks in "blue" and my thoughts in regular type.
I guess I hear what you are saying, Jeff. Here are my thoughts if you want them.
Absolutely. Thanks for your input. I appreciate the thought and time you put into your answer - the caring of a brother. Thank you.
I can agree with almost everything you stated below. I think you view my blog as something fundementally different than how I view it. I will try to address what you are saying in detail.
First, a husband and wife are "one flesh" according to Genesis 2:24 "For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and they will become one flesh."
There is a unity that exists in marriage (and especially a Christian marriage) that surpasses anything else this world has to offer. A husband and wife are "one." When we got married, we made the decision to let go of our independent ways and cleave to another person.
I agree with this entirely. There is a lot going on that I don't put in my blogs. These things would put more clarity on this issue. However, there are some deeper and personal things that I will not even put in my blog. However, these omissions do not preclude what I use my blog for at times, which is to process my thoughts - whether anyone reads them or not.
In the best of marriages, I do not share EVERY thought with my wife that pops in my head. I do not audibly let her know the wheels and cogs that turn inside my head. I would guess no one does. It wouldn't be prudent.
Second, according to Genesis 2:18, God gave us our wives so that they can help us. "The Lord God said, "It is not good for the man to be alone. I will make a helper suitable for him."
You will find no better way of drawing near to your wife than by sharing your heart with her. She is your helper, given by God and accepted by you. Don't deprive her of doing what God created her to do.
I agree with this whole-heartedly. As a matter of fact, it breaks my heart that I agree with this so much. Right now, for reasons I cannot fully explain in this forum, this isn't possible. However, even if it was possible, I would still independently process my life, have independent thoughts. Some of those thoughts wouldn't be useful and could be hurtful for others that know me to see. The beauty is that they don't have to see it. They are my PERSONAL thoughts. The obvious question, I know, if they are so personal, why put it on a public blog? I guess the clear answer is that it doesn't feel public. It WOULD feel public if the people that were in my life read it.
And consider how she would feel if all of a sudden she found that the man she thought she knew, the man who agreed on their wedding day to be "one" with her, had thoughts and feelings she never knew about, yet he was willing to share them with the rest of the world. Imagine the insecurity she would feel about that. She might begin to question whether or not she really knows you.
Understood. However, my life is somewhat anonymous here. To say that I am sharing my thoughts with the rest of the world, the rest of the world would have to know who I am. I could offer a challenge that everyone that reads my blogs should send me a card in the mail. Please include my first and last name on the envelope and make sure you get my address right. If you like, call my cell, too. I am not saying it is impossible. There are investigative things that people could do, I guess, but for the most part. I am one of thousands of Jeffs that live in my part of Indiana. That, to me, is anonymous enough. Therefore, I see my blogs similar to my wife's own diary - that I don't read.
Third, Jesus would not have encouraged the guys to share their hearts with everyone else in the world, but not with each other. I can think of no situation in which Jesus told them to do that. Yet I find a plethora of passages that speak of the unity among the brotherhood.
Again, this is akin to my diary. I don't think it applies.
Ephes. 4:2-6 teaches us to be "completely humble and gentle; be patient, bearing with one another in love. Make every effort to keep the unity of the Spirit through the bond of peace. There is one body and one Spirit--just as you were called to one hope when you were called--one Lord, one faith, one baptism; one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all."
If unity is lacking, it really should be restored through humility and an intense longing for the "one-ness" described in that passage.
You are right and trust me, I am not negligent in trying to make my marriage all it should be.
Is there no one in your life with whom you could confide, and in whom you could trust? Surely there is someone. One thing is for sure, if you aren't getting outside input from the those who know you personally, then the only pool of wisdom from which you are drawing is your own and strangers you might meet out here. And let's face it, we don't know you from Adam's housecat! And yes, prayer is essential. But the Lord gave us the Church so that we could bear our souls with one another (Col. 3:13). Use Mat. 18:15-16 as a guide to help restore unity.
Yes, there are people that I confide in. One friend has helped me immensely. However, he doesn't read my blog nor would he read my diary if I kept one in the traditional way. These are my thoughts - a visual representation of the workings of my mind. We all censor are thoughts before we share them with the people around us. Every time you see a beautiful woman walking along, do you tell your wife EXACTLY what crossed your mind? It wouldn't have to be lustful, but if I mentioned another woman's beauty to my wife, she would be sour for the rest of the day. So, I censor my thoughts in real life and even to a lesser extent, on this blog. I do not look for wisdom among my readers. If someone gives me something helpful, it is gravy, not the potatoes. When they offer encouraging words to me, it is great, but it isn't what sustains me. It is just a bonus for keeping this kind of diary.
Would you not be willing to sit and be a pair of open ears and a closed mouth for a brother who needed to get something off his chest, whether or not it involved you? Of course you would. And others would do the same for you, I'm sure.
Yes, and they do.
I dunno. I know I got kinda preachy there. But if you are bearing your heart out here, and this is the pool of wisdom from which you have chosen to draw, then I will freely, gladly, and eagerly offer you whatever wisdom and insights the Lord has past on to me.
Thank you so much. I know you would and that is one more blessing I get from my blog world. You find kinship in the most unexpected places. It doesn't replace my real life, but it is a nice amendum to a diary.
Labels: blog, christian living
